My thoughts are in Bold.

airob wrote:

Master Knight DH wrote: *sigh* Since I don't feel like arguing the individual points out right now, especially already being upset by how vile the opposite sex is by being freaking biased, I'll just show an image to make this simple: That's Day 14 of a competitive battle. Tell me the damn wall isn't broken. dood, first of all that map is not symmetric A map doesn't need to be symmetric to be a fair game. and it seems to me OS is winning..OS may actually just has to advance a bit further on the north while holding the south and win... BM just played badly it seems...why the heck do you want AAs when there is only one copter? So you can KILL the copter, maybe? AAs are very good against infantry as well. Too bad they cost 8000. it looks to me OS made a stable barrier and BM just couldn´t(or didn´t want to think really good) on making another one good, but it all is dependant on the map, seeing as it is non-symmetric, you CAN¨T ask for fairness on any map like that, BM just let OS get over them without making any resistance of course, you are afraid of the damn wall of things, but BM let it get build in the first place, you can´t blame strategies, just the player, if a strategy let´s you iwn, ther eis nothing wrong with that, and if you can´t devise a better then i suggest you practice more You didn't see the entire battle up to this point. Heck, nobody did. seeing the map OS north base is better positioned for rushing the north, msot properties seem closer to OS so you can´t really blame that an strategy is broken, the map is just unfair, and what you are agruing about, that inf+arty is broken and there is no way fo breaking through , woudln´t be any different if i just say that a MD tank is unfair because it´s more powerful than a tank, you just have to device your own strategy, being it copying the arty+inf and deploy them more inteligently, much people i know use the same or similar strategy, and there is always a winner, right now i can´t blame BM for losing,OS has aeveything at it´s favor, but if in a SYMMETRIC map, you lose, it´s becasue your opponent played better than you First of all there's a BM base in the north - an OS infantry is capturing it. Second, on a perfectly symmetrical map, FTA exists. At least, that's what everyone accepts. also you said using the same strategy would stalemate, i think it´s better to set draw than to lose

At that last line.

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symmetric maps are more fair, and on a non-symmetrical there is always.always , a bit of terrain advantage, of course, non-symmetric may be fair in some very well elaborated maps, but this is not the case,simple as that, and i do saw that base captured by OS,even so, OS has his base more close to most of the cities on the north side, two AAs for a copter? cool.
yeah nobody did see the battle, then it´s one of two:
or BM played badly, or the map has terrain advantage for OS
on a perfectly symmetric and GOOD map, there is an FTA counter to the best point possible

So OS has an advantage geometrically. Fine.

Doesn't exactly erase that giant infantry+indirect wall there.

BM won't get past it. If BM attacks directly the indirects'll just shoot them. Standing still means OS gets closer.

you can´t expect an advantage of one army over the other being it of terrain FTA or any other thing, and want it to win...in fac that arty+inf wall by OS isn´t well made, it can be pierced with two lines of infantry from BM,infantry is best countered wit infantry,i have broken barrier such as those, and 4 artilleries with three more infantry than those there would do much more thna that, infantyr must always be 3-1 on arties

airob, let me tell you: AW communities in general would just tear your points apart. Of course, I can't think of a solution within the basic AW framework that wouldn't just make something else, although likely better to put up with than the infantry spam, broken. Tank spamming became an issue for Custom Wars when their anti-infantry damage was toned way up, because there's few land units that can even damage tanks to begin with, on top of their own mobility and firepower.

probably, that last post wasn´t well elaborated(my post) and i think it had some explication not needed..simply put...
symmetryc= more fair, and easier to balance(of course with FTA counter)
inf+artspam= the most common strategy, not only art though..they do have tanks..i would like you to check one game on awbw
http://awbw.amarriner.com/game.php?games_id=95146

those two are simply the best players on awbw.....
and i assure the game won´t end in a draw, if one army is too dumb to not make a correct strategy or counter it with a similar one, don´t expect it to win....don´t expect BM to win that game with so few and bad units(looking at the situation) also as you said no one said the entire game...it´s most probably BM did an art+inf spam, just that it was badly placed...

I predict Benbever is going to lose that game, and he'll certainly be set back on the south front. Why? Because Ultrastorm has Lightning Strike ready, and Benbever doesn't have the necessary forces to break through. Even if he could touch the Artillery, he doesn't have the necessary forces to damage plenty of them. Which is another thing: that's another reason why there should be MORE explosive round units like GBW3's Humvee. Mechs get shot at, indirects can't move and attack on the same turn (to say nothing of the fact that you're just fighting fire with fire--in a strategy game, which is like a lastborn NOT using manipulation to shake off opposition, especially annoying older siblings), and tanks short of a War Tank (MB Tank in the first 3 AWs) or better--shut down by being too expensive--can't OHK Artillery without broken attack boosts anyway. Let me look on the damage chart in case I missed something.

...what the? AA Tanks deal 50% to Artillery. That's a surprise. Of course, you need them to KILL THE INFANTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE! And you already couldn't OHK Artillery--which you need to do to beat the flood--with Light Tanks, and you expect it to be different with MORE AA Tanks? The AA Tanks just get zapped by the back Artillery.

agree with your point there about AAs and all that....except that using AAs for countering infspam is considered suicide on AWBW
now, toleav this clear...the art+inf spam is a common strategy on awbw...benbever is nearly the best inf+art spammer, the basics are that when you spot your opponent trying to massive if+art spam...you can:
1-try to press an offensive on little fronts to try to draw the enemy´s closest units hoefully shattering their army and killing some units...most maps tend to force the player on dividing the army..since most good maps are made of 2-4 fronts...whilst that example image you gave me there has just one open front...while the onorth one is just too movement hindering for tanks..making art a suitable choice....when there is one open front on the map...and the opponent is making an artinf spam..BM could have attacked or at least countered with the same, but better placed strategy.....howeveryou dont know if BM stupidly attacked inf with tanks or AAs letting them be easy prey for the arts....
2-counter with the same strategy...but makeyours better..yes that´s right...counter fire with fire....it works often if you place your units better than your opponent...on a side note: the screenshot you showed me was for a map suitable for art+spam....
what i try to emphasise is that the almighty art+ inf strategy is not unbeatable...you just need to act quickly but if you let your opponent make a vast number of those...and you haven´t...don´t blame the strategy being broken....

I imagine AA Tank spam gets thwarted by throwing in an occasional Lite Tank. What's it matter that you lose the Lite Tank to THEIR OWN occasional Lite Tank, you leave the opposition with one less AA Tank to threaten your infantry.

....wait. You may not even need the occasional Lite Tank. There's probably simply too many Artillery for the AA Tank to kill.

Strategy #1 might work, but more money is spent on tanks than on Artillery. Tanks have to be really careful or they will get trashed or simply become unable to attack effectively.

Strategy #2 is just a war of attrition. Let me tell you right now: it doesn't work. Not in real life, and certainly not in a strategy game. And I know this from experience. That's why a game needs to have healthy variety: so that one player doesn't hog all the wins.

i´ve had enough time on awbw(like a year, a bit more) to tell that countering with the same strategy works...to tell the truth..no one on awbw (good players of course) is ever going to send a tank sole swarm..neither an arty sole swarm(the last one may be spotted, but very rarely..and only in heavy chokey maps, maps that don´t get on awbw standars, then again..most good players prefer to fight over in an A-rank map than a noob one)...as i said...a balanced army of tans-arts-infs-AA is going to let you win..not just arty..that´s for sure...yes arty gives a protected range from rushing units..but a tank can cover terrain faster(not just their extra movement..i mean cover terrain fater due that an arty needs meatshielding in early turns, that´s likely to be inf, that moves 3...while a tank doesn´t until the opponent makes a tank) there was athread on awbw forums about what´s the best starting offensive unit
tank = arty?
most people agreed on that building a tank first is better, there are even players that specialize on arty(arty spammer) or tanks(tank spammer) though don´t confuse it...don´t think that becasue they are called "tank spammer" they will just build direct units...it mean they start their game with tanks...and make arty whilst it advances...now i think u misunderstood the first strategy..i meant dispersing the army but not only with tanks..i mean a full divided army,like luring some fo your opponents units with a small tank-inf-arty arrangement, of course you can´t count with the opponent being that stupid..so it´s bs to try to lure the enemy to critical property areas,
you can cheks this map:
http://awbw.amarriner.com/prevmaps.php?maps_id=37505
in this map...it´s totally best open with tanks, and keep with them for early turns...artilleries are not spammed either...

I do awbw often.